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shriver	'jo
pashdown	hello
mario	Good Evening Senator.
andersbr	Should we be clapping now?
amigadude	hey pete!!
pashdown	hold the applause until november 7th
pashdown	lets wait another 15 just to make sure everyone gets a chance to show up
shriver	it's a deal
amigadude	i was wondering if you would support a bill to bring back the amiga.. if so, you have my vote
JalenJade-Work	you could download today's daily giz wiz and listen to the "mad minute' at the end..
JalenJade-Work	could = should
mario	He has Atari stickers on everything he owns.
amigadude	sacriledge!!
pashdown	that is in relation to pre-Tramiel Atari
pashdown	ie: Jay Miner
amigadude	btw pete this is james.. i emailed you a while back, we wrote some 68k code back when i was like 13 years old
pashdown	hey james, good to talk to you again.. that was like 21 years ago? ;-)
amigadude	good to see one of us has a respectable job- i retired 10 years ago after selling a software company. :-)
mario	Which of you has a respectable job? he is running for US Senate...
pashdown	good work, now you need to run for office :-)
amigadude	nah, i used to be apathetic about politics but now i just dont care any more.
mario	Do I need to flash pictures of some of the other people he will be working with?
JalenJade-Work	retired at 30 something?
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amigadude	more like 24 something
amigadude	i drove through salt lake city early this year and it is definitely god's country.. the approach drive in on the interstate is amazing.
amigadude	and i'm not even religious
shriver	uh.. which interstate?
shriver	from which direction?
amigadude	whichever one runs east to west
amigadude	and winds through some super-steep mountain cliffs on all sides
shriver	from the east I hope
shriver	from the west is God's forsaken country
mario	The giant hole in the ground?
pashdown	sounds like I-80
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amigadude	ya
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JalenJade-Work	...I wanna be retired in 3 years..
JalenJade-Work	lol
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mario	Hello SLCdon.
SLCdon	howdy
SLCdon	Pete, I see you found a stable connection to the "tubes".  Did Senator Stevens offer his office space to you?  :)
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pashdown	I was shocked to learn tonight that there is *no* free wireless on the Washington Mall.
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shriver	I sense another platform bullet...
SLCdon	time for an X-mission satellite office . . .
utahgirl	hi slcdon
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amigadude	there's always free wireless when you have kismet
pashdown	Not even that kind of free wireless.
pashdown	The air was devoid of signal.
amigadude	i have an EDO built into my thinkpad
shriver	I was shocked to learn the Washington mall was just a big grassy place
amigadude	so if a cell phone works i get 100kbits
andersbr	shriver:  Anyplace worthy of the name 'mall' should have a Starbucks.
pashdown	Yes, Mario was remarking that I should have raided the motorhome router of its EVDO card.
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amigadude	oh, i didnt realize you were in DC.. i was in DC back in 1995 giving a speech in front of a Federal Trade Commission panel about net privacy
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amigadude	the only time i've ever worn a suit other than funerals and weddings
pashdown	net what?
Locke	what privacy?
shriver	someone is fondling my packets...
amigadude	they had a conference about net privacy and children.. my company wrote the first commercial version of PGP
Locke	that just doesn't sound the same in text as in speech, what I intended to say...
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mario	hello
Toupee	Hi!
pashdown	So what do you think about GPG?
amigadude	eh, to be frank i dont encrypt anything myself anymore.
amigadude	it was hilarious the stuff we had to do to get the first versions out there- we had to print out the source code and anonymously fedex it to some dudes in europe
utahgirl	hi mario, toupee
amigadude	who then scanned it in
pashdown	I think encryption should happen at the SMTP level between servers so there is no interception.
amigadude	PGP has a server product that does that
pashdown	There are extensions to SMTP, the problem is not enough people use them.
amigadude	but zimmerman isnt really connected with the company at all anymore, so its kinda lost its street cred
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Toupee	Just wanted to express my support, Pete, good luck with everything!@
pashdown	Thanks Toupee.
amigadude	oh did you ever catch anyone stealing your campaign signs??
amigadude	that's pretty low'
Locke	Encryption at the ISP level doesn't prevent the ISP from being forced to assist the government...
shriver	what if I... he was just going to hang them up elsewhere?
pashdown	Not yet, although I had a bit of weirdness the other night at my house.
amigadude	locke- i meant at the server level inside a company
pashdown	Another candidate told me that if you smear the sign with a good coat of vaseline, it doesn't look any different, but it messes up the perp.
shriver	politics
pashdown	yes, elevating the discourse
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mario	hello brett
amigadude	pete try coating the sign under a mineral oil bath  with a thin film of white phosphorus, then a thin film of vaseline
amigadude	then wait for someone to steal it. :-)
pashdown	Locke, I would hope that most ISP's would resist that kind of spying.
amigadude	it will burst into flames once exposed to air!
Locke	You'd hope so
pashdown	Instead of building special "NSA Rooms" like AT&T.
shriver	if it was a court subpeona, and they had the logs, they would be compelled to hand over the data
amigadude	AT&T got busted for that in san francisco recently
* Locke/#pashdown shakes fist at AT&T
amigadude	some whistleblower took photos and everything
shriver	not logs, emails
pashdown	Court subpeonas aren't the problem.
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pashdown	Lack of subpeona is.
Locke	I'd prefer to encrypt my emails before they leave my PC, but then, I don't have anyone to email...
shriver	so, just companies doing the gov's dirty business without being legally compelled?
pashdown	Hello Gary.
pashdown	Shriver, right, or installing monitoring systems.
andersbr	shriver:  insert favored aphorism about backscratching here.
shriver	yeah, I would certainly feel a lot better if my emails were encrypted right at my machine
shriver	not enough people use GPG or the like, so it's pretty impractical
pashdown	Anyone have any questions I should forward on to the DSCC or the congress people/staff I'm meeting with tomorrow?
amigadude	i bet schwarzenegger wishes he encrypted his internal office recordings
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pashdown	That would make Schwarzenegger not Schwarzenegger.
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amigadude	yeah, here's a question you can ask them- what level of slime and corruption does hatch have to sink to before he's thrown out under congressional rules?
mario	I would think the Governator is pretty happy with how things turned out for him
pashdown	respect the opposition
amigadude	i respect teh office, not the man
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JalenJade-Work	Pete, what'd you finally have to do to get online? (heard you were having trouble earlier)
amigadude	anyway, gotta run.. pete we'll have to catch up sometime.. if i were a resident of utah i would vote early AND often
Locke	I believe he knocked over an internet cafe and ran off with several bags of internet
pashdown	The wireless at this hotel stinks.  Lots of overlapping signals.  I couldn't get a clear connection anywhere inside.
mario	We stole some tubes and a couple trucks.
JalenJade-Work	heh
mario	Our Internets are flying now.
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pashdown	Ironically, I was able to get a better connection at a Chinese restaurant, but now we're back at the hotel using their computers.
JalenJade-Work	are they dump trucks?
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pashdown	no no, the internet isn't a big truck.
mario	The chinese food was good too.
amigadude	you guys think that is funny, but there are actually natural gas companies who are starting to offer broadband over GAS PIPING !
shriver	I thought they scrapped most of the plans for those lines...
pashdown	what i don't understand about that is why they don't string a line of FIBER through the pipe
JalenJade-Work	ya know, if Stevens had said "pipes" instead of "tubes" none of the geeks would have faulted him
amigadude	cuz this would require no infrastructure cost
JalenJade-Work	mmm fiber
pashdown	gas companies are setup to be the biggest broadband providers in the country
amigadude	but it only works in really old urban places that still have metal natural gas lines
amigadude	most places built up in the last 30 years have plastic pipes
amigadude	and wont work
pashdown	i heard someone got fired from questar for merely suggesting the idea
JalenJade-Work	wish someone would but Fiber out by my house, but then I wouldn't want to move out since appartments don't have fiber
Locke	He still would've made the comment about the internet not being a truck you can just dump loads on
Web244	I wonder if the gas would corrode the plastic surounding the fiber
Web244	run the fiber in a separate pipe alongside the gas line
JalenJade-Work	he might have changed to swerer
pashdown	remember a dump truck filled with hard drives beats the intertubes anyday
shriver	insulate it in PVC similar to what the pipe is made of
pashdown	lousy latency though
amigadude	web244- the whole point is that they wouldnt have to do anything, or dig trenches, or get new right of way
JalenJade-Work	well yeah, those hard drive have data you can sell to someone
amigadude	it might actually work in places like NY/chicago/boston
Locke	I dunno, latency is kind of important for some things, like, for example, chat rooms..
amigadude	never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with floppy disks
pashdown	mmm, station wagons and floppy disks
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mario	how bout a guy on a bike with 5000 thumb drives on lanyards around his neck?
shriver	you just won my vote, Pete
JalenJade-Work	real floppy disks?
JalenJade-Work	the bike would flip
pashdown	i have a sealed box of 8" floppies at home
amigadude	some guy on ebay was selling 4 THOUSAND amiga 800k floppy disks.. i think the auction is still up.. he made a point of saying they were "sold as blank" but you could see the labels were scribbled with names of every amiga app ever written
pashdown	yes, i know, "nerd"
JalenJade-Work	hmm 8"...not sure I've ever seen 8" floppies
pashdown	they're awe inspiring
shriver	I need a CP/M-80 disk with mite on it...
pashdown	i think they held like 128K
amigadude	oh gawd, lets not talk about floppies.. i will have flashbacks of trying to convince pete i knew how to program decades ago when i was actually learning as i went.. LOL
unum	the 8" ones are the best ones to make snowflakes out of
shriver	sweet
pashdown	fyi, i'll probably have to surrender the computer in 15 minutes.
Web318	What is your stand on Iraq war?
JalenJade-Work	I avoid programming as much as I can
amigadude	ok, well, pete, good luck man!  keep in touch.. ciao
pashdown	bye
JalenJade-Work	I can't believe they have overlapping signals..
pashdown	Web318: http://peteashdown.org/issues/iraq.html
JalenJade-Work	kinda wish my company did manage that hotel, then I could get you working
JalenJade-Work	heh
pashdown	I'll get a list from you next time.
JalenJade-Work	we don't have anying in D.C.
mario	the connection is so yucky I can't even manage to update our google calander correctly
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pashdown	http://www.technewsworld.com/story/33572.html
pashdown	I found this network on the mall, but I couldn't join it.
mario	http://www.technewsworld.com/story/33572.html
pashdown	At the Lincoln Memorial there was no signal at all.
pashdown	Oopsie
pashdown	which is weird, considering there is this giant obelisk called the Washington Monument right across from that.
pashdown	good place for an antenna
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andersbr	pashdown:  Do you have a stance on the U.N.'s Millennium Development Goals?
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mario	hello folks
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Web811	Hi, what's up?
pashdown	Andersbr, I haven't read them.
andersbr	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Development_Goals
pashdown	looking
andersbr	pashdown:  Eh, that's fine.  I think they're very much worth supporting.
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pashdown	Thumbs up from me.  I want to see the USA getting behind more positive change like that.
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unum	welcome
andersbr	Yeah.  It's sad that we're not making any real progress, given that we agreed to it.
andersbr	I consider it the ultimate counterterrorism measure.
pashdown	I will stay here until 8:00 MDT or another hotel occupant comes in to use the computer.
pashdown	I think the idea of a larger form of InterPOL working with allied countries against terrorism would also be effective.
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andersbr	So, Pete.  We've got you for another half hour.  How can we use your time most effectively?
pashdown	Do any of you have any rural Utah contacts?
andersbr	What sort of contacts?
mario	We need to spread the word out to the small towns and rural communities person to pwerson
pashdown	I think we've done a lot of good work throughout the state, but the Meet & Greets have mainly been in Salt Lake and Davis County.
pashdown	I need events in all the other counties to attend to over the next six weeks.
mario	We will be spending some time in Washington County next week, but we need more help in those "non-Salt Lake" areas
Web110	Hi Pete, how do you feel about free trade..what is your stance on agricultural subsidies
pashdown	I favor "fair trade" over "free trade" in that I think trade should benefit both sides of the equation and protect American jobs/economy.
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pashdown	In regards to agricultural subsidies, they are OK as long as they are going to farms that really need them rather than multiconglomerates who don't.
Web110	Do you support the WTO and the World Bank?
mario	American environmental standards should not be compromised due to "free trade" deals, wouldn't you agree Pete?
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pashdown	WTO and World Bank's past actions haven't fit the bill on what I'd call "fair trade".  I think they could.
pashdown	Yes Mario.
andersbr	pashdown:  I would agree that taking subsidies from the biggest farms first would give smaller farms a competitive edge.  But I think all farm subsidies ought to be dropped.
shriver	do you have any practical ideas in limiting the issuance of subsidies to those who need them, and not the 'multiconglomerates'?
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Web110	Okay, thanks, I agree that farm subsidies for large cooperation are unnecessary
pashdown	Full open accounting is the solution to a lot of the waste in government.
pashdown	I'm sure the family farmer would like to know what is being appropriated to their corporate competition.
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Locke	Do you think the federal government or the states themselves should do more to prevent Americans from living in poverty, going hungry, or even being homeless?
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pashdown	I think the federal government has more resources to combat these issues.  I think President Johnson's vision for fighting poverty and hunger were good, but they've been whittled down to nothing as of late.
pashdown	I'd certainly rather see $2B spent on America's needy than in a subsidy to Egypt.
mario	But I want to use that $2B to buy more oil from Iran.
andersbr	pashdown:  Here's a suggestion I dreamed up while reading 'Collapse.'  In Montana, a lot of small farms have to get sold off to big farms or get converted into real estate because the land's value has appreciated so drastically since it was purchased.  When they die, they have to pay estate tax on the 'subdivision value' of the land rather than the agricultural value.  Small farms should be able to pay taxes on the agricultural value of the lan
andersbr	d, so long as they agree to keep using it as a farm for some number of years.  Of course, Bush used family farms as a talking point when he drove through the ridiculous estate tax breaks.
pashdown	I don't think we should trade or send money to nations who are not allied with us and/or don't support human rights.
pashdown	I've heard that no family farm has actually been lost due to estate taxes.  Anyone have a citation to back that up>?
andersbr	pashdown:  Not a fan of the 'economic development => democracy' equation?  Me neither.
pashdown	Some would argue it has worked with China, but I think it has cost America too much to lose all our manufacturing to China.
pashdown	Hindsight is 20/20, but I would have liked to see a little restraint.
mario	You can develop without being a Thug.  An American applying to a "drug treatment program" has to stop doing drugs before they can get assistance.
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mario	Why shouldnt a nation be held to the smae standard?  You stop misbehaving, we will consider lending you a hand.
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andersbr	mario:  In an ideal world, we would only trade with countries with similar environmental protections, worker and human rights, etc. as us.  That's what it would take to solve the problem of 'exporting misery.'  But I don't think such changes are possible right now.
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pashdown	If the Feds encouraged fleet conversion to biodiesel at a national and a state level, I think we could stop buying oil from Iran.
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shriver	I doubt it will ever be 'possible' without American willingness to sacrifice some comforts...
mario	Follow my example, a drug treatment center doesn't require an applicant to be in a suit and tie and earning chivalry awards, but they are required to make an effort NOT to committ atrocities and thugery.
andersbr	mario:  Demanding high standards of our trade partners would also reduce corporations' ability to do wage arbitrage between countries, which would be a good thing for everyone (including the corporations, who I see as eroding their own markets as they put the screws on labor costs).
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andersbr	So I'm with you in theory, but I don't see an easy way forward.
mario	Not all solutions are easy.
pashdown	few are
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pashdown	except for free wireless on the washington mall
JalenJade-Work	whoa, take a phone call and get lost in the convo
pashdown	14 minutes left
Locke	do you have any plans for fixing education in Utah?
pashdown	From a Federal level, I think NCLB should be abandoned.
andersbr	Locke:  Buy every dumb person a house in Nevada?  :)
shriver	or how about the nation...
pashdown	I'd like to see more funding of course going directly to school districts in need.
mario	This is good practice, Pete will be meeting with the NEA and AFT tomorrow afternoon.
pashdown	I want to see the Department of Education be a promoter of working/efficient models instead of an enforcer.
JalenJade-Work	I think the biggest problem with education is the teachers
JalenJade-Work	at least from my experiance with the schools that was my biggest problem
shriver	In my experience the exact opposite has been true
shriver	many of my teachers were doing an amazing job with very few resources
Locke	shriver, you had many honors and AP teachers
shriver	an excellent point
JalenJade-Work	my teachers drove me out of school
pashdown	I think it varies.  I'd rather see teaching be a destination occupation instead of a fallback.
andersbr	Teachers have a very difficult job, and I think they'd all perform better if they were given more support.
pashdown	With salaries the way they are, it is either a sacrifice or a fallback.
JalenJade-Work	I think teachers should get paid what athelets and entertainers do
JalenJade-Work	at least the good ones
pashdown	Amen to that.
gavinbaker	pashdown, do you favor increasing the role of the private sector in public education? e.g. contracting out school management, school vouchers, etc.?
andersbr	Higher salaries are a good start.  I think there should also be more resources devoted to professional development and teacher-to-teacher mentoring.
Locke	I think a big problem is motivating the students, and a huge part of that is parents themselves.
pashdown	One thing I witnessed on my trip to Japan was a school where the teachers drove European sports cars like Porsches, Audis, and Mercedes.
shriver	interesting concept
andersbr	Locke:  Parents also have very difficult jobs, and would perform better if they were given more support.  I say raise the minimum wage.
shriver	especially in Utah
pashdown	gavin, my problem with vouchers is that the government can't discriminate.  So if I setup a school based on the teachings of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I would be just as deserving as a Catholic school.
shriver	natinally, it's 5.15, right?
Locke	Oh, that reminds me, minimum wage, raise it!
gavinbaker	pashdown, after the campaign, want to set up a FSM-based school?
pashdown	*insert fringe or extremist religion here*
Locke	hey, hey, let's not diss the Flying Spaghetti Monster, he/she/it has some valid points...
andersbr	If you raise the minimum wage, parents don't have to work as many hours, and would be more able to volunteer in schools.  I think a minimum wage increase would lead to all sorts of civic action.
SLCdon	no time gavin, he'll be in Washington . . .
pashdown	Maybe a FSM foundation.
pashdown	andersbr: one would hope
SLCdon	faith based initiative?
JalenJade-Work	not with the way society currently is though
shriver	$5.15 is a deplorably low wage, much more support needs to go towards Sen Kennedy and the others that support raising minimum wage
pashdown	I understand Bush's FBI's have only gone to Christian charities.  I don't know if that has been discriminatory or not.
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SLCdon	my biggest problem with vouchers, at least with how they have been proposed in Utah, is that they give money back to the people who are already paying the least into the public education system.
andersbr	SLCdon:  Which people?
gavinbaker	pashdown, what about contracting school management to private companies (religious curriculum excluded)? just curious
pashdown	As long as education is *fully funded* and the tax credits are not discriminatory, then I don't have a problem with vouchers.  However I believe that fully funded education is a long ways off.
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SLCdon	the people who get the money back as a tax credit/voucher/"scholarship"
pashdown	gavin, as long as public education is fully funded and standards are met, I don't have a problem with it.
Web200	Whoever heard of fully funded public education
pashdown	Exactly
pashdown	I don't think it is wise to extract funds from an already underfunded system.
pashdown	Would it be appropriate for the military to privatize its education?
SLCdon	Pete, the tax credits are discriminatory . . . against those who have no children.  Example . . . I have no kids, I already pay more in income tax than someone who has children.  If they take their kids out of public schools and get a tax "voucher", then they are now paying even less.
pashdown	SLCdon, see my tax proposal in regards to no deductions and no exemptions.
andersbr	A Republican running for state senate in Tooele told me about an idea he was pushing.  Basically, a certain percentage of every public education dollar would have to be spent in the classroom, rather than going to administration.
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pashdown	Back to transparency and accountability on the process.
pashdown	We have the ability to put public budgets online.  I see no reason why they shouldn't be.
Locke	I really like that idea, the budget online
pashdown	I have a real problem with "black budgets" too.
SLCdon	I agree with that, but that's a separate issue.  Why should I ever have to pay more to fund education than those who actually burden the system?  I am more than willing to pay an equal (i.e. "fair") share.
Locke	The government should be as transparent as possible.
andersbr	CSV or Excel format?  :)
gavinbaker	i'm assuming we're talking open formats here :)
shriver	CSV or OpenDocument, of course
pashdown	SLCdon, by eliminating deductions, everyone pays their fair share.
pashdown	I would also argue that 99% of America would pay less taxes too.
andersbr	SLCdon:  My answer?  Because children are expensive to raise, and taking taxes from people trying to raise children/fund their college could be considered harmful.  It's an arguable point.
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SLCdon	does eliminating deductions equate to no "vouchers" in such a system?  If so, then I agree, that is entirely fair.
SLCdon	I know that argument anders.  I just don't know why I should pay more to educate others children.  I'm happy to pay the same.
pashdown	I see what you're driving at now.
pashdown	More kids = more money out of the system.
JalenJade-Work	that reminds me I need to refile my w2
JalenJade-Work	heh
pashdown	I think private schools have merit.  My kids have gone to both public and private schools and I've seen a difference in the latter.
SLCdon	hard to argue a point in this format, for those interested see this diary of mine (warning, naughty language :) ):  http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/3/18/21358/1897
Web148	hi, sorry to interrupt, but my kids have also been in private schools, the main advantage was that the teachers really were comitted and the classrooms were very small
pashdown	If there would be a way to encourage any form of successful education, public, or private, then I think it should be done.
pashdown	Classroom size is the major problem inside public education.
SLCdon	I think private schools have great merit.  But I don't think sending your children to private school absolves you of your responsibility to help fund public education.
Web148	I have been a teacher for the deaf in public schools both in l.a. and here in slc. I think we need to change the system, not necessarily change to private ed.
andersbr	pashdown:  True.  But I think encouraging successful public education should be the priority, because it cuts to the heart of the idea that ours is an egalitarian society.
andersbr	SLCdon: Hear hear!
Web148	I'm sad to say that  most of the public ed seems to ignore both ends of the Bell curve, the very gifted who don't do well in public ed, can't meet the sit and focus in chairs type of learning, and the other end gets services that do not address medical and social needs
pashdown	Ok, I really have to go now.  Early morning tomorrow.  Thanks for attending the first of many Ashdown chats from the Nation's Capitol.
pashdown	Bye all
shriver	Thanks for chatting, Pete
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JalenJade-Work	cya
mario	Thanks folks, good night!
andersbr	Good luck, Pete.  Give 'em hell!
Locke	dang, I was just about to ask him about nuclear power
SLCdon	Thanks Pete!  Good luck.
Locke	anyone know what Pete thinks about nuclear power?
SLCdon	Thanks anders.
andersbr	Locke:  Check the wiki.  :)
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mario	I think we have it on the website, if not, email me and Ill get it there (mario@pashdown.org)
Locke	oh, I didn't miss him, ha...  ok, I'll read the wiki
shriver	score, he uses BitchX
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andersbr	shriver:  I'm sure there's a humiliating public scandal in there somewhere.
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shriver	lol
andersbr	I gotta run.  Later.
SLCdon	me2.  Bye all.
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Web461	hello there... am i too late?
Locke	he just left a minute ago
Web461	ah sheeeaahht.
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Web461	love ya pete.  GO ASHDOWN!!!!!!!!
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